Articles | Volume 21, issue 6
https://doi.org/10.5194/os-21-3341-2025
© Author(s) 2025. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Observations of turbulent mixing in the Dotson Ice Shelf cavity
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- Final revised paper (published on 10 Dec 2025)
- Preprint (discussion started on 14 May 2025)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2025-1994', Anonymous Referee #1, 15 May 2025
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Maren Elisabeth Richter, 23 Jun 2025
- AC2: 'Reply on RC1', Maren Elisabeth Richter, 22 Aug 2025
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2025-1994', Anonymous Referee #2, 12 Jun 2025
- AC3: 'Reply on RC2', Maren Elisabeth Richter, 22 Aug 2025
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RC3: 'Comment on egusphere-2025-1994', Anonymous Referee #3, 27 Jul 2025
- AC4: 'Reply on RC3', Maren Elisabeth Richter, 22 Aug 2025
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AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Maren Elisabeth Richter on behalf of the Authors (22 Aug 2025)
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (25 Aug 2025) by Ilker Fer
RR by Anonymous Referee #1 (26 Aug 2025)
RR by Anonymous Referee #2 (12 Sep 2025)
ED: Publish subject to minor revisions (review by editor) (14 Sep 2025) by Ilker Fer
AR by Maren Elisabeth Richter on behalf of the Authors (21 Sep 2025)
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ED: Publish as is (01 Oct 2025) by Ilker Fer
AR by Maren Elisabeth Richter on behalf of the Authors (24 Oct 2025)
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This is a clearly written paper with nice figures describing nice analysis of an extraordinarily rare and hard to obtain dataset. The manuscript should be published. I do have a number of comments, questions and morsels for thought that I list below in the order in which I read. The majority are (very) minor, amounting to text and grammar nits, but some are more substantive. In particular I would like to see
*more supporting evidence behind the claim that mixing is weak (for the reasons given in the final comment below), *better figure 3 and 4, which currently mixes aspect ratios, has the reader going back and forth and does not allow direct comparisons of the most relevant quantities - specifically epsilon and the different instability indicators
*quantification of the ADCP vertical wavenumber response and hence justification of the numerical values of Ri presented (or alternately toning down the reference to specific values such as Ri=1/4 given the estimates are noisy and not fully resolved),
*justification for use of median versus mean
*and finally and perhaps most substantively, an explanation for why the turbulent heat fluxes just above the bottom are important to measure. Ie, is that the water that will eventually meet the grounding line, or should the study have been done nearer the top of the mCDW watermass where the gradients and heat losses are much stronger?
Good luck. I enjoyed reading the paper and hope that these comments are useful.
11: topography, turbulent or both not resolved?
26: awkward
35, 53: “this” is a weak reference. Please reword; see Strunk and White if needed.
48: Melt rates two words?
52: This statement is actually not true: epsilon is the dissipation rate and further assumptions must be invoked to infer the mixing. This needs to be corrected and expanded upon.
55: This would be a good place to distinguish what is different about this study from the other two.
56: which -> that. Also, is this the only reason mixing is important to know for these situations?
66-68: Please give order of magnitude of the clock offsets before correction and the precision of the alignment afterwards.
74: Please explain why you used median instead of mean?
95: Could indicate this is likely because of F=ma; ie the same force on the huge autos produces much smaller accelerations.
105: on which this study focuses.
105 general: is this the first paper that presents the details of shear microstructure from Autosub? Surprising if so but if true, you might consider showing a few spectra and additional details, possibly in an appendix, so that future work can cite this paper.
111: Shih et al is a very bad reference for this! They find a Re_b-dependent Gamma. Suggest just citing Osborn (1980). There are also now a handful of observational references supporting the assertion that gamma = 0.2.
113: How close to the bottom of the ice is the shallowest CTD measurement shown? The very strong gradients at the very top of the cavity CTD casts (Fig 2 black) are interesting.
123 and throughout: I believe units should be in roman, not italicized, font.
136: Suggest reformatting the equation.
140: Please make it very clear that Ri (under the ice at least) is based on a single N2 profile whereas the shear is a function of location and time. This is OK, but appropriate caveats as to its governing local instabilities without in-situ N2 should be given.
173: Generally, avoid “there is” in favor of more active language such as “flow is to the …”
177: High compared to what?
177: runon sentence.
Figure 3, lines 2 and 4 of caption: runon sentences. Also, the dots are said to indicate the starting locations - but they are a continuous line. I’d have thought there would just be two starting locations, one for center and one for east? Please clarify.
Figure 4: Personally I think it would be better to keep the aspect ratio constant between Fig 3 and 4. Also, sine you already plotted velocity in Figure 3, suggest including a panel of N2. The aspect ratio is all the more a problem later when the authors are comparing epsilon to the different instability indicators - but the reader must go back and forth between figure 3 and 4. Suggest standardizing the aspect ratio and including an epsilon panel in Figure 4. Possibly even adding Ri contours to the epsilon panel or epsilon contours to the Ri panel since the authors are trying to demonstrate correspondence between the two quantities.
Also, the Ri panel is just a big sea of red. Consider plotting something else to highlight the unstable regions such as Ri^{-1} or Fr = Uz/N.
182: Doesn’t negative PV mean unstable? The whole water column is unstable? Is it backwards in the southern hemisphere? Some statements to clarify would be useful.
188: I don’t agree with this statement - the high dissipation does not appear to me to line up at all with for Ri. Furthermore, given the ADCP’s finite vertical resolution and noise, some additional detail needs to be given on how seriously we are to take the numerical value of Ri. I think that either some wavenumber spectra and transfer functions a la Polzin 2002 need to be included, or Ri used as a qualitative indicator.
191: I disagree; elevated mixing is much broader than the regions of Ri < 1/4 - augmenting my previous point.
193: This statement is not justified. Epsilon appears surface intensified as well. And while it is bottom intensified, I do not think the statement that it is heightened over rough topography, shear or high currents (of which you generally must choose either high current or high shear, not both…) is supported. And as before, I don’t think that high epsilon lines up with low Ri either. Either way, if this statement is retained, more analysis needs to be shown - scatter plots, binned averages, etc.
197: runon sentence. And seemingly unrelated sentences. Ri governs shear instability, not symmetric instability… (I understand they are highly correlated here, but they are different, so clarification is needed).
202: What is a barotropical jump?
207: Please rewrite this passive and vague sentence.
204-210: Suggest moving this speculative bit to the discussion.
216: I think it would be nice to compare this to open ocean values at a similar depth and/or abyssal values, for context. Otherwise “weakly stable” doesn’t have meaning.
218: Style guides such as Strunk and White suggest avoiding “Figure x shows…” in favor of “statement x is true (Figure y).”
223: Figure 6 and 5 -> Figures 5 and 6
236: redundant. Suggest “Maximum values were” or “Values reached.”
238: Again, I’m afraid I don’t see this. There are counter examples where epsilon is high over flat bottoms. Please include plots that allow direct comparison such as plotting epsilon with Ri, current speed or bathymetric slope over plotted, or scatter plots or binned averages (e.g. epsilon(Ri) etc) if you want to make this claim.
241: Please remind reader that it’s Ri computed from in-situ where and
245: Again, please include transfer function and instrument response information if you wish to quantify the numerical value of Ri versus using it as a qualitative indication. Note as well that these transfer functions and hence the mapping of true to measured Ri will be different for the Autosub and the LADCP.
257: Is it really necessary to use a package like this to compute a spatial gradient? More fundamentally I do not see a relationship between RMS bathymetric slope and dissipation rate.
264 onwards: consider moving all of this comparison to past work to the discussion, so that the results section just has your results?
270: I’m confused here, sorry. Weren’t the ALR measurements entirely in the warm inflow, since they were so deep?
272: runon sentence.
273: Due to what mechanism?
281: Please change “this” to “their” to avoid confusing with your study.
285: If you are going to state dissipation rates this low, I think you do need to demonstrate your minimum detectability threshold. Earlier you said it was 1e-10. So how then do you get a median lower than this.
Again, I think median should be avoided for all quantities unless there is a good reason. Why not just use the mean?
333: The reason for these calculations is revealed here - suggest giving it earlier to make the reader understand why they are being told all of this. More fundamentally, is that the only reason turbulence is important to measure under ice shelves? Ie, as a possible mitigator of the advective heat flux by these warm flows?
I, at least as a non ice sheet person, would like to see a cartoon (words or actual graphic) showing a cross section of the hypothesized warm water flow to the grounding line. The reason for this is that I don’t currently understand why the study focused so much on the near-bottom mixing. I’d think that the heat loss out of the mCDW would be better quantified near its upper edge. As the authors point out, the water near the bottom is very weakly stratified so the heat fluxes are expected to be small. Aloft nearer the interface, the gradients would be stronger, but also the distance from the topography which is presumably generating most of the turbulence (my comments above about that not having been adequately demonstrated notwithstanding). So, statements that mixing is weak such as on lines 356-258 should be tempered somewhat. And I think the cartoon or written description of the flow giving readers the sense of which depths are thought the most likely to eventually contact the ice would help inform this discussion, at least for me.