Second review of “Long-term eddy modulation inhibited the meridional asymmetry of halocline in the Beaufort Gyre” by Lu et al.
I appreciate the efforts the authors have gone to in order to address the reviews of the previous iteration, and I believe that the structure is now clearer than before. However, the manuscript still has some major problems that, in my opinion, make it unsuitable for publication in its current state. In particular, I do not believe that one of my major points has been adequately addressed.
I have outlined the main points below. Note that some of these have appeared since the previous review. This is either because of wording changes, or because the text was made clearer which made it possible to assess the scientific content without being as affected by difficult sentences. Note that there are still some places where the wording needs to be fixed.
Major points
1) Gyre asymmetry
I believe that the gyre symmetry found in the manuscript is not a valid interpretation of the data available. In my previous review, I questioned how the northward limit of the datasets (northernmost being 80N) affects the results. Specifically, if the gyre centre is more south, the halocline to the north of the centre – both within, and perhaps further north than the northern extent of the gyre - can clearly be seen. If the centre is located more north along the section, though, then it is closer to the northern limit of the data and less information is available about what happens up to the northern limit of the gyre and beyond. It is important to acknowledge this as a large caveat, since the gyre has been shown in the literature to move northwards and westwards during some of the time period in question. The authors have provided an additional set of transects along 140W to demonstrate “similar shifts along these two sections”. In my opinion, the section along 140W after 2014 demonstrates my point; when the gyre has moved westwards, the deepest part of it occupies less of the transect than it does along 150W, and there is a clear asymmetry in isopycnal slope either side of the deepest part, much like in 150W before 2008. I suggested that the authors could check if the northward limit is making them draw the conclusion that the gyre is now symmetric by analysing the SODA dataset further north than the data extends to. This has not been done.
I understand that much of the gyre is contained within the “BG box”, and that it has been used in previous studies. However, there is a difference between computing integrated properties in a region (as is done in previous studies) and analysing vertical structure within different parts of the region. I believe that the latter is more heavily affected by the position of the centre and spatial variability, and so such analyses carried out in a static region must be very conservative in their conclusions. As it stands, in the later period it could equally be interpreted that only the central portion of the gyre is being shown. There is no evidence to demonstrate that this is not the case.
The authors’ response that the APE (and thus the halocline slope) flattens, and therefore the gyre becomes symmetric, is not so relevant as an argument, since it is computed within the same region as the section in question, and therefore does not contain information from further north.
I further note that Manucharyan and Isachsen (2019) suggest steeper isopycnal slopes in the south due to bathymetry; with a southern bound very close to the continental slope, the isopycnals will naturally be steeper there. Perhaps when the gyre centre is further from the continental slope, it allows for flatter isopycnals south of the centre away from the slope? This is not discussed.
The continued emphasis of the gyre becoming symmetric, which is attributed to eddies by the authors, without discussing how the changing shape/size/centre location of the gyre in itself affects the halocline structure, is a significant oversight. Being limited by the data range is not an excuse for this, especially since the authors could try to verify their conclusion is valid by looking at the SODA data.
2) Misleading description of figures
In a number of places, descriptions of figures do not match what the figures show. These ambiguities, and in some cases errors, make it hard to know whether the text is correct or not. I list some examples below:
Figure 2 and Table 1, and associated text (section 3.1) is very confusing. There are multiple places where statements in the text are not apparent in the figure and not backed up by Table 1. Firstly, there seems to be contradictions related to whether a negative trend in halocline depth is a decrease or increase in depth. “A negative trend of halocline depth is clear during 2008-14 in the southern sites of the basin (moorings A and D), but the former and latter periods both mostly exhibit positive trends in halocline depth and thickness” would suggest that positive is a shallowing depth, and decrease in thickness. But then, for mooring B, “the halocline depth continues deepening over the whole period” which has positive trends for each time period, suggesting positive is deepening. Likewise, in the response to review, “the negative trend means halocline depth is lifting during that period, which is not comparable with the deepening trend” suggests positive is deepening. Such inconsistencies make it hard to follow what is actually happening and when, especially since the general trends (increasing or decreasing) are hard to tell in figures 2a and 2b due to the y-axis and short-term variability.
Figure 2c also has poor text accompanying it. Lines 200-202 do not correctly analyse the figure - there is not a continuous increase before 2009, there is not a continuous decrease between 2010 and 2014 (it goes up between 2010 and 2011!), and it has not been relatively stable since 2015 (the increase from 2017-2018, for example, appears similar to the decrease between 2011 and 2014). This also appears in line 400.
Figure 3 (line 220): after 2014, there is also a difference north-south (just with some fresher water in the far south). So I do not really see a gradual decline in spatial difference
Figure 4: what is shown by the arrows? The caption says “the depths of halocline base on either side are marked” – either side of what? Is it the interannual mean of the centre? I worry that the two points are not comparing the same parts of the gyre on each plot
Figure 6, and lines 291-293: many lines on the figure, but most notably the green lines for moorings a and d, are neither bimodal nor decaying directly from the surface…
Figure 7: you state on line 318 that “EKE was significantly enhanced compared with that in the previous period” – are you just talking about the area in the Alaska box? This should be stated here. There are parts where EKE clearly decreases over time in the rest of the figure.
Figure 8: Lines 340-355 say some incorrect things about the figure. For example, line 345 suggests SODA has been stable since 2010, but in the figure it reaches its highest points during strong variability from 2014 onwards, and this variability is comparable to the increase from the mid 1990s to 2010. Line 347 states EKE decreased in the two regions between 2010 and 2015, but it seems to increase in both SODA and altimetry, and in the case of SODA it is not “relatively weak” – it is higher than in all previous years before 2009.
Response to other revisions
You discuss MKE in multiple places, and I asked why it was relevant. It would be useful to add another set of subplots showing the MKE, since it seems that the authors find the comparison with EKE important.
One of my comments asked for further justification that you are combining the mooring data, after focusing on how they are different. The new lines 335-339, which address this, should have a reference about which particular former research is relevant here. Additionally, “every mooring are thought equal to characterize the main features of eddy strength in the BG region” is not in itself a justification – do you have a reference for this? Combining the moorings and vertically averaging should be explained more here, in particular in how it affects the results. For example, 2013 and 2014 have very low EKE, but mainly have data from moorings A and D in them – is this a coincidence?
Other comments
Lines 63-67: time periods of changes of each variable should be provided, and the literature checked to ensure it is correct. For example, I believe Zhang et al (2016) discuss a stabilization rather than continued increase in some properties. The phrasing as it stands could suggest a continuous increase in all gyre properties over the last decades.
Line 236, 238: Be careful when talking about “lower” depth. Here it seems that you are using lower as deeper, but when you say “30m lower” it could mean “30m less”. Prefer to use “deeper” or “shallower” to describe depth changes
Line 299: what is meant by “less valid observations”?
“before 2008” seems to mean different time periods in different parts of the manuscript. This should be clarified everywhere, as otherwise it is hard to compare figures.
Line 347: it is strange to phrase a sentence as EKE lagging behind halocline changes, since I thought the point was to show how EKE was causing halocline changes. This should be clarified. |