Articles | Volume 19, issue 6
https://doi.org/10.5194/os-19-1669-2023
© Author(s) 2023. This work is distributed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License.
Constraining an eddy energy dissipation rate due to relative wind stress for use in energy budget-based eddy parameterisations
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- Final revised paper (published on 30 Nov 2023)
- Preprint (discussion started on 28 Jun 2023)
Interactive discussion
Status: closed
Comment types: AC – author | RC – referee | CC – community | EC – editor | CEC – chief editor
| : Report abuse
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RC1: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-1314', Julian Mak, 17 Jul 2023
- AC1: 'Reply on RC1', Thomas Wilder, 18 Sep 2023
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RC2: 'Comment on egusphere-2023-1314', Anonymous Referee #2, 19 Jul 2023
- AC2: 'Reply on RC2', Thomas Wilder, 18 Sep 2023
Peer review completion
AR – Author's response | RR – Referee report | ED – Editor decision | EF – Editorial file upload
AR by Thomas Wilder on behalf of the Authors (18 Sep 2023)
Author's response
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ED: Referee Nomination & Report Request started (19 Sep 2023) by Bernadette Sloyan
RR by Julian Mak (20 Sep 2023)
RR by Anonymous Referee #2 (25 Sep 2023)
ED: Publish subject to minor revisions (review by editor) (02 Oct 2023) by Bernadette Sloyan
AR by Thomas Wilder on behalf of the Authors (03 Oct 2023)
Author's response
Author's tracked changes
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ED: Publish subject to technical corrections (13 Oct 2023) by Bernadette Sloyan
AR by Thomas Wilder on behalf of the Authors (16 Oct 2023)
Manuscript
The article provides an estimate for one of the components of ocean eddy energy pathway (through relative wind stress), partly for improving our understanding of ocean energetics, and partly for informing the use of eddy energy constrained parameterisations. The topic is relevant to the journal and is of interest, although I am biased because I have publications in the related area... The methodology is reasonable, with an toy model that provides a analytical expression for the dissipation rate that can be applied to ocean datasets, with appropriate caveats stated; although see some technical comments I have below. Comments I have are mostly presentation related, but there are a few technical ones that I think the authors could provide a clarification for in a revised version (and yes those are probably going to be innocuous sounding but potentially annoying questions).
Technical comments
(There is also a Rai et al (submitted) but that's not published yet, and may be not as relevant as the 2021 paper.)
1) The notation is a little un-rigourous, because it's not clear which quantities are scalars, vectors and/or tensors, missing some contraction operators and the like. For example, the final term on the right hand is written $(\nabla^2 u)^2$, but you really mean $\nabla^2 u \cdot \nabla^2 u = |\nabla^2 u|^2$. Is the second term a tensor ($|\nabla u|^2$) the hit by the Laplacian operator? This is mostly notation but probably could be cleaned up a bit.
2) Normally in shallow water it is known that simple choices of the Laplacian as a diffusion leads to sign indefinite energy dissipation (e.g. Peter Gent in 1993, "The Energetically Consistent Shallow-Water Equations"; Gilbert et al., 2014, "On the form of the viscous term for two dimensional Navier–Stokes flows"; in my PhD thesis). One offending reason is that the primitive variables in shallow water are (h, u, v), but the conservative variables are (h, U = hu, V = hv). If for example in the prognostic equation we have $-\nabla^2 u$, then multiplying by $hu$ then integrating by parts gives (abusing notation a bit)
\int hu \cdot \nabla^2 u = boundary terms - \int \nabla (hu) \cdot \nabla u,
which gives the expected sign-definite term $-h|\nabla u|^2$, but there is a cross term involving $\nabla h$ floating around. The problem however doesn't exist in the conservative variables. It seems somehow you don't have this issue here? I am not seeing how your terms could be written as a flux given there is that annoying $h$ term floating around, so a clarification would be useful.
Ultimately I assume it's quantitatively not going to be important, because your "hyperdiffusion" $\nabla^4 u$ (I put quotation marks because I am arguing $u$ is not the variable you should be hitting $\nabla^4$ with) is presumably going to be a small effect. Clarification and maybe appropriate references here would be helpful (e.g. Gent 1993; note also he makes the point about energetic consistency, which I am not convinced you have here, but it's probably not too important).
(I don't personally believe you should do what I just suggested. I am just raising the point that the word "eddy" is sometimes used to mean different things by different people, and sometimes the intention is not as precise as it should be.)
Presentation comments
\begin{align}
W_{rel} &= \tau_rel \cdot u_g \\\
&= etc. \\\
&=
\end{align}